Michael Shellenberger is an author, journalist, and founder of Civilization Works. He is the CBR Chair of Politics, Censorship, and Free Speech at the University of Austin. His books include “Apocalypse Never" and “San Fransicko."www.public.newswww.shellenberger.org Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Visible. Live in the know. https://www.visible.com/catfished Now This is Taxes. Visit https://turbotax.intuit.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices