We had the honor of having our dear friend Jonathan Pageau host this Beyond Order lecture in Montreal on May 23rd, 2022. Jonathan opens the show by describing how he first heard (and subsequently met) Jordan. This event, then, serves as a continuation of the conversations they first had. Throughout this hour-and-a-half-long event, Dr. Peterson and Jonathan Pageau discuss perception, symbolism, values, and the relationship between perception and the cognitive scientist’s attempts to understand consciousness. —Links— Check out Jonathan Pageau’s YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCtCTSf3UwRU14nYWr_xm-dQ Websites: https://thesymbolicworld.com (speaking) https://pageaucarvings.com (carving) https://orthodoxartsjournal.org (writing)  —Chapters—  0:00 — Intro 4:55 — Dr. Peterson enters the stage 8:00 — Perception, Cognitive Science, and the problem of bodyless AI  11:30 — The visual cliff experiment & perceiving the world 18:30 — The awe of infinity & complexity of the Heavens  21:00 — Awe, imitation, & why humans celebrate 28:00 — The role of sacrifice & delaying gratification 32:00 — Egyptian gods & ancient symbolism 36:00 — Pyramids vs. mountains in The Bible 44:00 — The cost of not aiming properly  52:30 — Bottom-up vs. top-down conceptualizations of the world 57:00 — Sam Harris 1:05:00 — Why the Diversity, Inclusivity, and Equity types are taking on STEM  1:10:00 — Is it possible to create values from scratch? Nietzsche, Freud, & Jung 1:16:00 — Why go to church? 1:22:00 — Q&A #Perception #BeyondOrder #JonathanPageau #Symbolism #Values #SamHarris Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices