Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with John Vervaeke and Jordan Hall. They discuss the vertical dimension, proper orientation within the hierarchy of values, the normative versus the ethical, and what makes something more “real” in a pragmatic and philosophical sense.   John Vervaeke is an associate professor of psychology & cognitive science at the University of Toronto. John publishes and conducts research on the nature of intelligence, rationality, wisdom & meaning in life emphasizing relevance realization, non-propositional kinds of knowing & 4E cognitive science.   Jordan Hall, previously known as Jordan Greenhall, is an entrepreneur and systems thinker with a focus on the intersection of technology, culture, and governance. Hall co-founded DivX, Inc., a pioneer in digital video technology, where he served as CEO and Executive Chairman through its early growth and IPO. Prior to that, he was a key figure at MP3.com, helping to revolutionize the digital music space. His early career also includes a brief stint as a lawyer, having earned his law degree from Harvard before transitioning into technology leadership and investment.   This episode was filmed on December 27th, 2024.     | Links |   For Jordan Hall:   On X https://x.com/jgreenhall?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor   On YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMzT-mdCqoyEv_-YZVtE7MQ     For John Vervaeke:   On X https://x.com/drjohnvervaeke?lang=en   On Youtube https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke   Website https://johnvervaeke.com/   Find John Vervaeke on Lectern http://lectern.teachable.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices